Interview With an Artist

Judith’s career began with her working for local newspapers, Santa Barbara Press in California, The Riverdale Press and The Photo District News in NYC. She also traveled extensively shooting for various airlines, such as Royal Air Moroc, Pan Am, Air France and TWA. Judith is also co-founder of the photographic website, Photoworkshop.com

[This interview was conducted via one email]

How long have you been making photographs?

It started the first day I picked up a camera in 1974. I was on vacation with a boyfriend in Hawaii, whose family owned a camera store. He lent me his camera and never saw me again for the rest of that trip. I was hooked with a new passion. When I returned home I took darkroom classes at the city college and immediately landed a job working for a local newspaper.

Why did you start making images?

My eyes opened for the first time. They had another purpose other than finding my way. I was hooked in being able to stop time and record images of life.

Do you remember the first photo that you ever made?

Oh yes! Those gorgeous flowers in Hawaii, every one of them.

What excites you about photography?

That I can hide behind this tiny black box while creating a visual composition that stands out as an artistic masterpiece in my mind. And since each moment changes, there is never boredom.

How often do you make images just for yourself?

Everyday. My eyes never stop creating “theatre set” scenes with or without a camera. Of course those fleeting moments pass like a flash. But if I am really quick, I use what is most handy, my cell, which has been surgically attached to my hip.

What do you enjoy photographing most?

I am turned on by people being people, doin’ their thing. I love environmental portraits, street photography. I feel energized when recording a special moment, with the challenge of perfect framing while observing one sliver of life as it passes on by.

Is photography an art form?

Ahhh… the million dollar question! To which I answer, absolutely!

I believe art is a general term and can refer to anything that is created. What might be considered “fine art” or “high art” is that which can withstand the test of time. Taking “art” a step further encompasses the technical along with an artistic interpretation, be it a photograph, painting, expressive use of words in poetry or emotions released in a musical piece. For it is the “true artiste” who creatively juxtaposes the art of life in such a way as to make it worthy of viewing, reading or listening to.

If photography is an art form does that mean that every one that takes photos is an artist?

In the literal sense, yes, with my premise of “life is art,” one can justify this as true, while its interpretation is also an art in itself. But, if the two most important aspects of art, the technical and the creative do not produce a symbiotic combination, it stands a chance of not being classified as “fine art.”

What is an artist?

We are all “artists” in some form since we are the creators of our lives. Art encompasses our thought process from the spiritual to the physical…from putting clothes on our bodies, creating the space we live in, to our aptness at communicating with each other.

There’s a vast amount of ways of creating art and to be an artist. It is a general word that can be substituted for life, but in terms of “high art”, it involves craftspeople and practitioners driven and challenged to take art up a notch and convey artistic achievement. These craftspeople have a natural technical proficiency and they are masterfully able to express what is within by using their imagination, sensitivity, intelligence, intuition, and variations in their sense of scale, balance, color, and meaning. These “artists” also have the ability to create dysfunction out of function, disorder out of order and vice versa.

Where would you rank being an artist when you compare its importance to all other occupations?

I don’t believe in ranking or comparing one skill against another. Some of us can search a lifetime to find what we are passionate at and skillful which in the end, puts us all on an equal playing field. If taken a step further, it becomes more about the uniqueness of the craft and its achievement, about how strong your passion is in getting attention while adding the skills of timing and marketing.

How would you classify yourself as a photographer?

I am a pure hobbyist who has had a vast amount of photographic experiences and adventures. I’ve enjoyed sharing what I’ve learned about the craft with others, from our Photoworkshop.com website, to teaching, writing and working with children around the world.

How do you see an image before you actually create it?

I shoot mainly documentary, street photography. I rarely “foresee” an image in my mind. I might take a journey to India, China, New Orleans, Mexico, the Bronx, or just walk my block. For me, a photograph is never planned. My eye merely discriminates and singles out various compositions. It’s what we all see in some form every day but might go unnoticed. It’s here where my passion and challenge lie, finding that perfect combination of composition, light and timing.

A lot of your imagery is somewhat voyeuristic, almost as you are invisible. Is that intentional?

The invisible part yes, perhaps an innocent form of voyeurism, if there is a good sense of this word. Being able to “hide” is my passion in photography. My focus is to take a slice of life and keep it as close to what it appears to be from my perspective without being noticed or interfering in the naturalness of the subject and the moment.

Do you ever feel invisible?

There’s something strange about holding a camera. For the oddest reason, this black box gives me a false sense of invisibility. There has only been one instance where I became seriously visible. I “got caught” photographing some teens (who, unbeknownst to me were doing a drug deal), needless to say, I ran for my life!

Explain your thought process while making an image.

It comes up unexpected and unplanned. There must be something eye catching that stands out about the scene, something coming from my senses, or just a piece of time that captures my eye (as there are thousands of these “scenes” going on around us every second). I know when it’s a good one because my heart beats fast, my body heats up and a rush of excitement overpowers me…. Hmmm, sounds like…..well…. passions do invoke a physical response.

Anyway, when I see and feel a perfectly composed scene I separate it, keeping out unnecessary objects or distractions that will detract from the strength of what my eye first saw. This process is instinctive and happens at supersonic speed so as not to loose that fleeting moment!

As a photographer what do you try and communicate to those that view your images?

I enjoy sharing what my eyes see and my heart feels. It’s about creating a visually appealing image that tells a story, while keeping it simple with the subject obviously in their natural setting as intended.

Do you consider what you have to say to be important?

Only if my images elicit a response or tell a story, while capturing a part of the world people can hold onto, or showing it to them in a way that they might not see it.

Is it important to you for people to like your work?

Of course I feel good when people respond well to my work. It reinforces what I see as interesting enough to evoke a reaction. But, I create images for me. The passion resides within and rarely do I look for reinforcement.

Do you have any other artistic talents?

Yes. I have other creative passions. I am in the visual business. Interior design and Feng Shui, along with creative projects from sewing curtains to tailoring clothes to rearranging furniture.

I also work as a personal wardrobe consultant in NYC. My clients consider me their “fashionista godsend.” I work with women in creating their fashion style. There’s a definite connection between looking good and feeling good, and most certainly vice versa.

If you could study under any artist who has ever lived, who would it be?

Photographically, I have been fortunate to have studied with the best from Ansel Adams to Yousuf Karsh. It would still be exciting to have observed various artists at work, such as Diane Arbus, Sarah Moon, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Bernice Abbott, Garry Winogrand, to name a few.

You have been married to an extremely famous photographer. How does that influence what you do as an artist?

I was a photographer with my own style before I met Robert. Being with someone of his caliber offered a certain “superficial” respect, but in the end his style was not similar to mine. It’s more about one’s personal way of seeing, which is interchangeable with passion.

Has your vision and Robert’s vision never conflicted?

We view the world in such different ways. Often we felt excitement from the same scene, but the outcome was always completely unique to our separate styles.

What is the hardest thing about being an artist?

Staying true to your art and not allowing public interference or opinion to restrict its outcome. Also, marketing your passion while earning a living; this is one skill that stumps many artists. Creating is easy compared to getting your creation out to the world, that in itself is a whole other art form.

What scares you?

Do we have 10 hours to spare?

To me the “unknown” has a quality of scariness as much as it has one of excitement. There are numerous degrees of ‘scary’ from physical ailments to being on the edge of loosing everything to saying goodbye to a loved one. Then the other unsettling more timely concerns impacting us today, from our country’s political state of affairs, the power of religion and its ramifications, the justification of war to the health of our planet and just plain old day-to-day survival.

I’ve walked alone in some extremely scary places around the globe, but what is happening to our world today feels unnerving and unbalanced. As things begin to right them self, living through it at this time seems a litmus test of strength in character. In regards to our country, I remain hopeful that with our new upcoming administration, optimism will again be restored.

Does your own life experience play a role in your imagery?

Absolutely. Life experiences play a role in everything I do, say or feel. The images I shoot happen only from where I stand at that moment.

My passion is exploring various neighborhoods and spending the day with my dearest friend, my camera. This takes me back to when I was young with my father and his love of driving through ethnic neighborhoods on the East Coast. I remember sitting in the passenger seat, barely able to see out the window, but I still got it. I saw what he was seeing. I felt his excitement, observing how other people live in places other than our own. This had a huge affect on me and on my style, what my eye became drawn towards photographically.

What does photography give back to you?

Being a passion, it’s about the satisfaction of doing something that challenges my creative juices.

Who are some artists that are currently producing work that you like?

Painter/sculptor - Dennis Oppenheim. My kids of course, filmmaker – Blake Farber and graphic designer - Devon Farber. Many other photographers as well; Jesse Diamond, Ami Vitale, Robert Kato, Carlos Malvas, Fran Forman, to name a few.

How has travel influenced your photography?

It is during travel, stepping into a new environment and away from my normal “safe” life that I most powerfully feel that freedom to pursue my passion.

I lived in California a large part of my life, and I rarely picked up a camera in that environment. I didn’t feel that driving urge to photograph except when I drove 6^th St. going east towards downtown LA. Driving through various ethnic areas got my juices flowing!

Are you artistically satisfied with yourself?

There are two ways I look at this.

Yes, because I love many of the images I have taken over the years and satisfied with the way I see and compose.

And

No, because often I feel frustrated for not producing more, or getting my work out there more.

But then, I wonder, if I were completely satisfied, might I stop producing and challenging myself?

With Ansel Adams

I was tempted to put my arm around him for the photo, but decided not to out of respect.
But just after this was shot, he put his arm around me.


How did studying with Karsh and Adams influence you?

I was in my 20’s and recently got hit with the photography bug, knowing this was to be my career direction. I studied Ansel’s complicated zone system in college, and thought, why not learn from the man himself? I took a 10- day workshop with Ansel Adams at his home in Yosemite. I saw a true technical genius at work, and how he was able to pre-visualize a scene with perfect exposure. The workshop ended up being more of a photojournalistic journey for me. I was driven towards documenting my workshop (via cassette tape) finding out more who Ansel Adams was, besides a well-known man who created impeccably exposed B&W images. This started me on my path of photojournalistic style portraits.

Yousuf Karsh’s workshop detailed the set-up of his beautiful portraits with soft lighting. As educational as it was to see how he created his portraits, studio photography was not my forté. But again, I was drawn in, focusing more on getting to know the man behind the camera.

What advice did they impart to you?

Perhaps not advice, but what made the biggest impression was how humble both men were. Fame had nothing to do with who they were. It was about doing your passion well, and remaining true to yourself.

With Yousuf Karsh

I am proudly holding the Polaroid he took of me that day.

Is there a story or memory that you can share?

Ansel Adams allowed us free rein into his home and personal life. Every night we had dinners with him and his lovely wife. I experienced how simple he lived from his vintage old Pontiac to his aged wooden cottage. Oh how I could kick myself…his signed “Moonrise” photographs were selling at his store for $1500!! However, I did get a signed book and a T-shirt! Ansel was a kind, shy and soft-spoken man who was very generous sharing his brilliant technical expertise of exposures. We walked with him as he searched and found nature’s perfect composition. We watched as he set up his 8×10 camera, allowing us to look behind the lens, seeing what he was seeing, while observing him shoot, and develop prints. Ansel had the “patience of a saint.” Unfortunately, I did not. But I experienced a small piece of the man, and truly liked him.

Yousuf Karsh and I had an immediate connection from the first minute we met. He even chose me to be his model for a mock studio shoot. Plus we always ended up hanging out together at the evening functions. Yousuf was very warm and entertaining. And it was a pleasure for me to be his audience. We corresponded for one year after the workshop. He was very supportive of my new career, commenting positively on my children’s portraits while reaffirming my good eye for composition. I still have his letters….

To see more of Judith’s work visit the following links/

http://judith.photoworkshop.com

http://photoworkshop.com/photo101

http://doubleexposure.com/OhSay.shtml

http://doubleexposure.com/CritBoutique.shtml

Known for her soulful and personal approach to portraiture, Cheryl Jacobs has the unusual ability to bring out the intensity in her subjects, young and old. Her masterful use of B&W film and natural light give her prints a depth uncommon in today’s digital world. Her distinctive style of fine art portraiture is instantly recognizable.Cheryl’s work has appeared in Kodak’s ProPass magazine, Black and White Photography magazine, The Equine Chronicle, and numerous online publications. Her work has been featured in group and solo shows at The Photographer’s Gallery (Denver, Colorado), Core Gallery (Denver, Colorado), and The Elevator Gallery (Toronto, Canada).

[This interview was conducted face to face in Cheryl's home]

You are a photographer, a musician and a vocalist. Do you have other talents?

Not really, it is kind of hard to explain because I do all of those things together and separately and I do little off shoots of this and that. I have stuff that I do with the band; I sing with the band and I also sing at Lanie’s from time to time. I do old torch songs there.

So now, I do a little of this and a little of that and photography over laps, music over laps. I used to do a lot of painting and a lot of drawing but photography made me lazy. I am too lazy to draw or paint anymore; it is just too much work.

What do you enjoy doing most?

It depends on what day it is. Sometimes the music stuff feels like the most comfortable fit for me and other days I just want to tell the band to go to hell an forget about it.

Then I will have a great shoot, and get a picture that I really like, and I am back into photography. Then I have a rough shoot and decide I hate it. It just really depends on my mood. I can’t really tell you right now where I’m at. Somewhere in between. I am happiest, I think, when I am combing both of them.

For example, in Arkansas, I go to Arkansas quite a bit. I do photography and music there , we have what we call the Barn-O-Rama. [In a low whisper, almost as a thought to herself] Arkansas is a different world….. a very different world….

The Barn-O-Rama is a bunch of very talented musicians that get together… amazing musicians. We have a big jam session, record it and drink way too much but I also shoot the whole thing. At the end we end up with a book and a CD of everything that happened that night. It is a really fun combination to see it from the artsy perspective that I shoot it from and hearing the gritty perspective that you would experience if you were there.

That is probably my favorite thing that I have done lately.

What do you do with the CD?

The guy that owns the barn that we perform in is a commercial and portrait client of mine as well. He buys the book and I use that money to produce as many more books as I can and give them all away to the musicians. I don’t make much from it but I have such a great experience doing it that I want to give something back.

You actually started singing and playing the piano in church?

I did. I was dragged around. I started at age three and was dragged around the church circuit in southern California.

Actually dragged? Was it something that you didn’t want to do?

At first it was something that I was into because I didn’t know any other way. Let’s be honest, you get a lot of attention. So, if you like everybody to watch you it is a good place to do it.

It’s nice because in church everyone just says amen and that’s wonderful, nobody gives you honest feedback. As a kid it is great for your ego. Then, at a certain point, you get to where you’re a teenager and you don’t really want to do that anymore.

I always enjoyed it but I was definitely ready to move on which is probably why I moved a long way away for school. A very long way, as far as I could get.

Did you start photography after you started to draw and paint?

It was a long time after. Actually I only picked up photography about seven or eight years ago. I started drawing and painting when I was really little.

With the drawing, I did a lot of exactly what I do with portrait photography but with drawing it definitely more about trying to get the likeness. It was definitely all about the eyes; trying to get the eyes right, trying to get them to say something. I used to obsess about that, I tend to be a perfectionist. I would erase and redraw and erase and redraw until I ripped the paper. I’d throw it in the corner for a couple of years and come back and go; nope, still not right.

Once I found photography it was a lot more fun because there is less worry about trying to make something look right. I can spend more time in trying to get something worth while out of it, something that actually says something. It replaced the best parts of drawing for me and lets me forget about the other stuff.

Your parents are extremely religious. To what extent does that affect what you do?

That’s a funny question because with the type of photography that I have intended to do, it doesn’t matter that much. With the type of images I make it’s going to be pretty hard to do a kids picture or a portrait that is offensive.

There have been a couple of projects that I have wanted to do but I have hesitated because I think to myself “I would really like to put my name on these and put them in a visible place” but……

Getting into music has helped me a lot. I don’t get to change all of my songs just because my parents are going to be there and frankly, I am not doing a show with out having a beer. So that has helped.

The things that I was afraid of… they are gonna think this, they are gonna think that… You know what? They do, and it is fine. It hasn’t killed me and I think that it’s actually been good for them as well.

I am such an outcast in my family anyway, it’s ridiculous. I am the black sheep for sure. I think right about the time I had the second divorce they started going “oh god”.

I think it’s been good for them. It has been good to challenge them because they are so sheltered. That seems strange to say that about your parents but it’s a choice that they’ve made. I have not left them any choice but to consider things outside of what they believe.

When I started singing at the burlesque club I think that about did it for them. I still don’t think that they actually know what burlesque is.

The other thing that’s been interesting is that I married a photographer and he enjoys shooting nudes and pinup that borders on fetish at certain times. I am married to him so I have been drafted to be a model. I don’t really have a choice, I can’t just say no. There is always this fear that they (my parents) are going to stumble onto his website and say “Wow…. look at our daughter”. Oh well, what are ya gonna do?

I don’t know how it will change in the future but for right now, especially with my music, it helps me go “meh”.

What are some of the projects that you have been hesitant to shoot?

I am not saying that I won’t. I want to shoot stuff that pushes the envelope a little bit. As I have gotten older I have definitely gotten darker and edgier and my kids have gotten older so that helps as well.

I do have an interesting circle of friends. I have so many interesting friends and I really want to document them all in their element. That means burlesque dancers, strippers, extremely off color comedians, all sorts of really interesting people. I’ll do it, I am shooting it now and enjoying it. I just don’t know what I am going to do with it. It is gonna have to be one of those little bridges that I cross at some point.

I like images that hint at something a little bit disturbing. I have found that those type of images are not a problem for my parents. They don’t look at it long enough to get it. They just look at it and go ” ah, that’s weird”. I don’t think there is a huge effort to see anything beyond “that’s a cool picture”.

For example; I’ve got pictures of kids that are really dark and really brooding. They are very unhappy looking and hint that there is something going on that’s really not right. Occasionally I will get a picture and look at it and think that there is something really off here. They (my parents) don’t see that. It takes to much effort.

How does having two failed marriages, two really bad relationships, affect what you do and how you see things?

During my first marriage I was not doing photography. I was fine with it ending, I didn’t need any recovery period at all.

My second marriage was when I had my first successes in photography and it was a horrible relationship, it was really shitty. That marriage is when I started photography, it was how I developed and that’s what I was used to. I made dark images, some very moody ones.

The odd thing is, that once I actually got him out of the house and started to learn how to be happy again it completely screwed up my photography. I had no idea how to shoot happy. I had nothing at all to pull from. At that time I actually produced some pretty awful work, it took away the angst that I was used to working from.

It has been a big adjustment, it’s here again but I think that I’m channeling other people. I am tapping into other peoples misery [laughs].

What is like now that you are married to a photographer?

We pull energy from each other but we shoot very different subject matter and our individual styles don’t overlap. It is good to have a built in critic. If I am going in a direction that I think is really great and it is not, I will get told that right away. It’s good. It keeps me honest.

You trust his criticism?

I always keep it in mind [laughs], let’s put it that way. I don’t always agree but I think we have a similar eye for what works. I can critique his work really well and he can critique my work really well but it doesn’t always mean that it is going to change anything.

Are you still teaching workshops?

Occasionally, I got burned out.

I really enjoy teaching. It benefits me, I learn a lot and I meet some great people.

It is rough to do the type of workshops that I like to do. They are very personal. They are so draining and exhausting and every time I would finish one I would tell myself that I just can’t do this again, and then I would. I did that for so long that I am just burned out.

Do you have plans to teach workshops in the future?

Yes, but they are going to be much different. They are going to be smaller, five people max. I was teacning workshops of up to fifteen people and with the nature of these workshops it is just way too much.

What do you try and accomplish in your workshops?

My biggest objective is to bring back the value of photography. Not how to take better technical pictures or how to use the latest actions because I don’t care about that stuff, I really don’t care. If somebody asks me one more time “what’s the best lens”, I’m gonna strangle them.

I want to bring back value in the content. I want them to shoot something that is meaningful. It is shocking to me how so many people have no idea what moves them. They have no clue. They don’t know what they find valuable. They have no idea and it drives me nuts.

My goal is to get them to figure out what is important to them and then we will work on the technique to back it up. We will figure out what is missing and what they need to work on.

Right along with that, is style. People think you can buy a style. They think style is the latest back drop or equipment and when someone else gets the same backdrop they think that their style is being stolen. If you can steal it, it is not a style.

What moves you?

I got frustrated with photography very quickly and it didn’t take me long to figure out that I was not saying a single thing with my pictures. I knew I wanted to say something but I didn’t know what I wanted to say.

I started searching around a little bit and then, there was one picture that I took and I thought, there it is, that’s it! It was a picture of a neighbor girl, sitting alone, by herself, with chin in hand lost in thought.

When I developed the film and looked at the contact sheets I realized that somewhere along the line I lost the ability to just be. Just sit back and be by myself. Don’t do anything. Don’t worry about anything, just sit there and be. I think that gets lost when you grow up.

The shot was inky and dark and not what you would consider a technically great shot. It violates most every rule. It’s tilted, it cuts her fingers off, it has loss of shadow detail. But… it meant something.

Actually I was a really…… um…. yeah, I was a weird kid. I was always the entertainer; I always had to make everyone laugh. I had to have attention but I was also very much a loner. I needed to be left alone a lot.

I was a deep thinker as a kid, I thought about a lot of things. I never felt like I was taken seriously because I was a little kid. That has always motivated me, especially when working with kids, to let them just be. To say something valuable about them and to take them seriously.

I photographs kids exactly the same way I photograph adults and that comes from not being taken seriously when I was a kid.

Describe your shooting style.

I am not what people call a photojournalist or documentary photographer which is a lie anyway. There is very little photography that is documentary and it certainly doesn’t have only portraiture in it.

I have gotten to where my style is much more conversational. I have a conversation, there is give and take. It is not an interrogating.

The mistake most people make when photographing children, especially professionals, goes something like; so… what’s your favorite color? What’s your favorite animal? What’s you r favorite game? blah blah blah blah. They’re just firing questions at them and not listening for an answer. So, at the end, you don’t know anything about the kid because you haven’t listened and the kid doesn’t know anything about you because you haven’t told them anything.

I like to really converse. I like to find common ground. I want to get to know them. I want to hear something more than what their favorite color is. I really like to have a lot of give and take and then the picture is just a record of their response to you.

I am a big believer in that you get back what you give. If they (kids) are not engaged then that says something about you. If you aren’t willing to put forth some effort you can’t get mad when they don’t just volunteer it.

If you didn’t have children of your own would you still be drawn to photographing kids?

Yes, because of my childhood experiences. It’s important to me, especially when you look around at the kid’s photography that is out there. So much of it is just brutal, it’s so disrespectful.

Why do you choose to shoot in black and white?

I like the grit and the mood. I am a big fan of grain and I find that color is too literal.

When I photograph kids I don’t look at it as a portrait, I want it to be more of a statement of kids in general, people in general. Getting rid of the color helps me to abstract it so that is not about a particular person but people in general.

It is also aesthetics. I like thing that are moody and things that are very simple. When I look at too much color I don’t know how to process it, I don’t look any deeper than “cool”.

Why do you shoot film?

I like the process. I like that I have to be slow and deliberate with it. I like that I have to anticipate, especially when I move from 35mm to medium format and then to large format.

You can’t just be lucky. You have to sense what is about to happen and I think that discipline has really enhanced my work. I like having to pay attention.

I can shoot digital, I just don’t do it. I like digital color fine but I do not like digital black and white.

I like the tactile feel of film. I like fiber prints. I don’t like cheap prints.

Why do you make images?

It is a release. I am a much nicer person because I have creative outlets .

I don’t usually plan an image but every now and then I will get one in my head and it just won’t leave me a lone. I can’t sleep… I can’t concentrate… I can’t do anything that I am supposed to be doing. There’s not a choice, it has to be made.

Then there are other pictures that I just think that somebody needs to make. A lot of those have to do with kids. I have photographed kids that are really ill and kids that are dying. I have photographed kids that have been neglected or abused. The images are not always for the viewer. Sometimes that person needs the attention of being photographed; this can be especially true when it comes to kids. It validates them when somebody wants to photograph them.

I do it because people need to know that they are valuable enough to be photographed.

Do you look at other photographers work or are you afraid that if you do it will have too much influence on your own work?

Early on, when I first started, I knew that if I looked too much at any one photographer’s work that I would copy it. I wouldn’t mean to but I would. I wanted to make sure that what ever my work developed into was mine as much as possible. It’s not totally possible.

I stopped looking at everything. I didn’t look at anybody’s work at all until I was pretty established in my own style. The funny thing is… at my first gallery show all I heard all night was “obviously influenced by Sally Mann and Mary Ellen Mark”. And I am like “who?”. I had to go home and Google them.

I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t just mimicking someone. In the end, where ever you land, it is inevitable that you will draw comparisons to somebody.

Since then I do have a policy of not looking at any one photographers work too much. I don’t buy photography books and I rarely buy photography magazines. I want to make sure that I am not doing the Mary Ellen Mark shot or this shot or that shot. I look at it long enough to identify what it is that I like about it and what moves me about it and then I don’t look at it any more. It’s a little limiting but because of the way I am I really don’t have a choice, I will start copying and I don’t want to.

What is the importance of art?

Art in general, photography specifically forces me to think and to consider things and to get a little philosophical. I don’t those things are required to get by in life today. I don’t think that you need to understand anything. I don’t think that you need to seek knowledge. I don’t think that you have to do anything in this day and age but get on the internet, watch TV and go to work to get by.

I don’t think that thinking is part of life anymore.

Art itself is not the valuable part of art. To see art, whether you are looking at it or creating it, that actually gives you the opportunity to think about something and consider it; that is where the value is.

How do you feel about being an artist?

I think it makes me smug [laughs]. I like the feeling that I am showing people something that they don’t see. I like feeling that there is a little bit more to me than what television show I am going to watch tonight. I like how it makes me think.

At the same, I have learned how to be able to say out loud that I am a photographer but I still can say with a straight face that I’m an artist. I can’t do it, I just can’t do it. I think that it sounds pretentious.

Are you an artist?

Yes!

The following excerpt was taken from Cheryl’s blog (with her permission) and posted here. I think that this is one of the most important pieces of advice that I have ever seen written to aspiring photographers.

What Every Aspiring Photographer Should Know

http://www.recklessred.com

Nina Pak is a multi talented artist who was the design editor for AustralAsia magazine in Moscow Russia. She now works with digital photography, publication, hand-made books, visual journals, collaborative art books, Compact Disc packaging, design & layout. Nina’s primary focus was in Photography and design work but most recently her passion for painting has been rising to the top of her priorities. Her paintings are mixed-media containing photographic elements and her current works are being produced in large format Color Carbon Fresson prints. Nina also served on the Glendale Arts Council in Arizona for several years. (Taken and modified from her MySpace page)

[This interview was conducted via one email]

Tell me about your childhood.

My childhood was far from ideal. My mother and father were both lovely people, who chose to bring me into the world to celebrate their passion, but they really had no interest in being parents. Both were very independent and had active social lives. My mother was a business woman, and did not have time for the usual mother daughter activities. I learned young how to cook and do other household chores to help out.
Each of my parents had been married before and had children from those marriages. My siblings were twelve to fifteen years older and lived with us only for a short time when I was very young, so for the most part I was raised as an only child, a latch-key kid.

My parents divorced when I was three but they remained very good friends. This was significant in the forming of my perceptions on the world and personal relationships. I was basically on my own most of the time, when adults were around; I was the type of child to play quietly alone and not to make demands. When I was completely alone, I was easily self entertained, and I had a number of invisible friends as well. There were rarely other children who lived near by, and at school I was an odd child and did not mix well, I didn’t understand other children’s interests.

Pets have been a constant part of your life, what is the importance of that?

Animals are a joyful part of this world. I believe we, as humans, are the caretakers of those creatures who have been domesticated, and we owe it to them to protect and nurture them. They also greatly enrich our lives. I have a very strong emotional empathy for animals and can not stand to see them abused or injured or in danger.

Is there anyone else in your family that is an artist?

I have a nephew, James Luckett, who is a photographer, and some of my father’s grandchildren are talented artists, but I am not currently in touch with them.

At what age did you start to explore your artistic abilities?

For as long as I remember I was using anything I could find to make, build, paste, nail, cut out, color, or paint… it was my constant activity. If I had a pen and paper I would doodle, if I had an old catalog I would cut it up and make paper dolls and clothes for them and houses for them inside an old shoe box. I would take old scraps of cloth and sew clothes for my Barbie dolls. At my fathers house I would nail old blocks of wood into some strange and wonderful structures. I rarely had actual art supplies, other than crayons or water paints. But I always found something to be creative with.

Is your family and friends supportive of your art?

My family was neither supportive nor not supportive, they were just glad that I kept myself busy. Sometimes they would praise me for something I made, but most of the time they just left me alone. I often wonder what I might have been able to do with my art if I had been given actual tools and supplies and some guidance at a younger age. Or even some access to art, a gallery, museum, or some art books. I had none of these until high school. I actually have no idea how I was inspired to be an artist. The only artistic influence I had was an illustrated fairy tale book.

Your images have strong spiritual overtones to them. Are you a religious or spiritual person?

When I was very young I began to have what would be termed spiritual experiences. The first one I personally remember was when I was five. I liked to lie on the grassy hill in front of our house and watch the clouds. On this day, in a relaxed state, I closed my eyes and watched the colors behind my eyelids turn from red to green and then suddenly everything around me in all directions opened up and surrounded me in a vivid light blue light. I was so startled that I opened my eyes, but I was still there, on the grass with the clouds above me. So I calmly closed my eyes, again the colors shifted, and once more my head opened to the blue light. It became my practice to go to the blue when ever I had time to be alone with out interruptions. There was other phenomenon I experienced as well, which I only learned much later was not common experience for everyone. Somehow these experiences lead to an exploration of eastern philosophies and religions. I now call myself a Buddhist, but it is perhaps more true to say I believe the world is more than what we see, and it is filled with beauty and spirit. It does not seem necessary to label what I am or to follow any specific religion.

You are a painter, photographer, lyricist/musician, jewelry maker, book maker, graphic designer; am I missing anything else ?

Just as when I was a child, I can be creative with any raw materials I pick up. I perhaps have too many interests. But I do also love to write.

Which of these talents was the first to develop?

Visual art was my focus, and drawing was first because a pen or pencil and scrap of paper were the most commonly accessible materials available to me. I later began to paint, and write stories, I did always take snapshots from age thirteen; I had a small camera. I truly wish I had someone who could have given me a real camera, and taught me more, introduced me to the mysteries of the darkroom and the magic of making prints. But it was not my good fortune to have these teachers until much later in life.

Which medium is your true love?

They are all part of me, How can I love one more than another, they are just facets of who I am. I am always most in love with what I have just created.

What is the process that you use for your paintings?

I am a mixed media painter at this point. My process is rather long; there are many steps, as I use a wet gel medium transfer technique. This is outlined step by step in my website blog, for anyone who is interested. I then paint into the transfer. I use every type of paint, ink, pastel, pencil or material that will give me the effect I am looking for.

Where do you your find inspiration for your painted works?

When I work, it is from a place where there in not much thinking, I would say I am most influenced my dreaming. I have rich dream worlds which I have been visiting from childhood.

How do you decide on your color pallet?

I don’t decide on a color pallet or anything else, I just let it come out.

You are a very prolific artist, how often do you start a new work?

I am very prolific; I find that it can flow out without hindrance if I am in the right state of being, so I like to work on many canvases at once, letting one dry while I add the next layer to another. Painting goes in cycles for me, I don’t always have a large studio space where I can make a mess, when I do, I take advantage and do a lot of work. If I have limited space I do other art work, such as digital imaging or jewelry making.

Does the same process that you use while painting apply to your drawings?

No, drawing is a meditative process, I doodle everywhere, I especially like to draw if I am sitting and listening to a lecture, it helps me maintain attention and focus so my mind does not wander away from what the speaker is saying. I also like to carry a sketch book with me, so if I am stuck waiting somewhere, I can draw or write down Ideas that come to me.

When did you begin using photography as a medium?

I took photography first in high school, but I did not own a good camera, or have money for materials or access to a darkroom outside of that limited class time, so I did not find it was a easy path to creating art at that time. It did however leave a lasting impression on me. When I was in my 30’s I took a community college class to learn how to document my paintings, I was sending out a lot of slides at that time and found it was too costly to pay someone else to do it. Then unexpectedly, I fell in love with what was possible, and it changed everything about my art.

What draws you to photography?

Perhaps as a painter I lack the skill to render everything I want to create. Although I had some training in college and private instruction, I had very few good teachers. I went to college during the time when “express yourself” was the main focus and there was very little basic technique passed on to the students. So I am largely self taught, by trial and a lot of error. I found that photography added the missing elements that I could not bring to the work on my own. It gives my world form in a way that is more true to what I see in my dreams.

How do you decide on a theme?

That is an interesting question. With the Tarot, I was working on a video for Hathor’s Sister, it was my idea to have one scene with a tarot layout, and I finally realized what I wanted to do with the cards, I had to make my own. Well, I had been designing tarot cards off and on since my twenties and always would drop it after some point because the tarot is a complicated study and there are many elements that don’t jive. But here I was coming at it from a purely visual point, not from a place where it had to all make sense. So I posted the idea and thought I would have a few people who would want to work on it with me, and my plan was to just do enough to make that layout for the video. But to my surprise, within two weeks I had all the cards assigned and for the next year it took over my life. After the bulk of that shooting was done, I had learned that people are inspired by the story, they need something to attract them.

I posted the Innocent Dark; that is another story. I visited Patrick Alt during the time of Photo LA, an annual event in that city where many of the nation’s photo galleries are represented. I was privileged to be Patrick’s house guest and to attend his annual Photo LA party. Patrick collects art, and interesting people. He is one of the countries treasures in Alt Process photography; he and many of his close friends are creating rare works of art. It was during this visit that a friend of his challenged me about my pretty art. He felt it necessary to reflect the darkness in the world with his art.

So, I realized something rather obvious and yet profound. My art is safe. It is beautiful. I have no need to reflect the darkness, the evil side of this world, because I have lived within it, It has touched me, I have been personally exposed, as a child, and young adult, to the fear, and evil things that many people put in their art. I made art to create a safe place for myself to be, a beautiful world to live in, that was insulated from what had hurt me. I chose the innocent dark to explore this part of myself that became aware of the question of darkness in art.

The short answer is that there is no set process to making a theme, if something comes up that has some meaning for me, then I explore it, otherwise I find trends in the work I have been doing, and offer them as a choice to my models, as a means to tie together bodies of images, such as “The Elements”.

When you decide upon a theme how do you choose your subjects?

When I have a project I post it on Model Mayhem or other similar sites, and then I choose from the models who contact me for the work. At this point I also have a list of models in every state and in other countries, who would like to take part in any trade or collaborative project. So it is just a matter of looking up their profiles and seeing who will fit the look or character. Or in many cases I prefer to just choose a model that interests me and then without any preconceived ideas, I like to see what evolves at the time of the shoot. In any case, even if I have a plan, as I did with the tarot project, it never turns out how you expect, there are always other things that come out.

Describe your post image process.

I work mainly in Photoshop and my most common tools are masking and layers.
I do not have a set way to work with an image, I experiment, every image is different, so every image has different tools applied to it, or different layers. It is not uncommon for me to have up to 10 layers in an image. I do create a lot of my textural layers with paint and then photograph them for use in Photoshop.

I read that some of your work is being produced as Color Carbon Fresson prints. Tell me about that.

The Fresson Family in France has been making color carbon prints for generations. Their technique is a guarded secret. I know it takes at least 3 days to make a print and it is perhaps the only archival process for making a color print.

I wanted to make a piece of art that was lasting and worthy of the image. I am looking for gallery representation for this work. I know it is perhaps a fruitless endeavor as many of the people who might buy a photographic print do not know the difference between a Fresson print that will last for a 1000 years; and a Giclee, ( that will fade in a matter of 50 years in the best case scenario). But I know the difference.

What other alternative processes do you use?

I am learning and exploring Alt Process because I want to reproduce my art in a form that is lasting. Ink jet or Giclee prints are not archival. They have improved the inks in recent years, so they are more stable, but they will fade and disappear in a matter of years. My biggest problem is that my work is really best in color, and most archival processes are for black and white. Nevertheless, I do really enjoy learning and experimenting.

You are a mixed media artist. Why do you choose to combine your photographic images with your painting as opposed to using editing software such as Photoshop?

Because there is nothing in digital imaging that can imitate the texture of real paint on board or canvas. I do my best to try, and my photography work comes close, but I still love to paint.

What is Hathor’s Sister?

I was fascinated with music, being raised on the Beatles and Elvis, and later Joni Mitchell. I had a strong affinity with lyrical writing and a desire to create songs. I did not however have any musical talent, or rather had no training. It was not until Marta, a close friend of my family, who is like a sister to me, began to explore her musical talents, that I was drawn into the recording studio with her. It was by her encouragement alone that I went beyond writing the lyrics and began to record my voice in spoken word and song. And we formed Hathor’s Sister together.

The name is a personal matter, something close to us both, it is a long answer and not something I can give you in a short interview.

I write the music in the same way as I paint or do photography. I sort of dream it, and then I wake up and write it down. Or maybe Marta will say: lets do an album that deals with… and she will say a subject. Then I will find my daydreams contain elements of these images, and from them word fragments that I write down, then after a while I sit down and put them together into a song. I do most of the writing for Hathor’s Sister, but sometimes we write together. Or we will take a poem I wrote some time ago, and with some changes, we turn it into a song, such as Genocide on our first album. We made that into a song one evening at a coffee house, Marta with her guitar and a pad of paper and the poem in between us. Marta is a talented song writer in her own right, she has many self published albums. She chose to give me most of the creative freedom for the writing on our work together. It is her way of honoring our friendship, her gift to me.

How has your extensive travel influenced your art?

Any chance to experience a new culture, or different language will enrich your life, having a chance to live in a different country, to truly absorb the differences, will give you unexpected insights into your own self development. This is how it is for me anyway, it gives me new ways of seeing, and everything goes into the art. Everything that changes you, gives you new insight or inspiration, and will also change your art.

Would you say that you have a gypsy’s soul?

No, far from it. I love to travel, and I had an adventurous soul in my twenties, I threw myself into experiences because I felt I had to find myself in other places, cultures and religions. I was looking all over the world for what I already had inside. It just took me a while to realize it, and then I found I was happy to be at home. I still enjoy traveling; there are places I want to see and photograph. But I also need to have a home base. I am actually quite an introverted person, I like having alone time.

Tell me about the use of mythological, occult and mystical iconography in your art work.

Mysteries have always interested me, Ancient cultures, forgotten knowledge, symbols, these are things that draw my attention and find their way into my art. It seems that there is always so much to learn, and discover, I am an avid reader and always surround myself with interesting books. My husband is also very well read and a great inspiration for me. There is just not enough time to read or study everything I am interested in. But what I do study usually ends up in my art, or influences it. On my desk now for example: stories by Jorge Luis Borges, A Woman Encyclopedia of Myths, The Decameron, The Kabbalah, The Hopi Survival Kit, The Gnostic Gospels, a scifi novel called Replay by Ken Grimwood, Blink, and The Pessimist’s guide to History.

You were also on the Glendale Arts Council. With the financial (and I suppose political) condition of things at the present, funding for the arts in schools and cities has greatly been diminished. What are your feelings on this?

The right brain activities in school have never been considered of any great importance. I feel it is a very important aspect of human development and a necessary element in children’s education. Having been a dyslexic child myself, who excelled mainly in the arts, I can tell you it is not easy for anyone who is not talented in math or science to go to public school. Many children who have brilliance in unorthodox ways are overlooked and do not get the guidance they need. I know this, as I did not find out that I have a high I.Q. until I was an adult and joined Mensa.

To change this, the very nature of education has to be transformed. The perception has to shift. A different fundamental awareness has to be there. And for that to happen our whole society has to become a little less ignorant and a little more enlightened… how we teach our children, is how the society will be, if you don’t teach people how to ask the right questions, if there is no curiosity, if there is no freedom to explore what your own talents might be, then people will remain ignorant and the same conditions will prevail.

What is the purpose of art?

To inspire, to heal, to give a feeling of goodness to anyone who lives with it, to share beauty.

Who are some other artists that you admire?

Dante Gabriel Rosseti, Sandro Botticelli, Nicholas Roerich, Svetoslav Roerich, Freda Kahlo, Arkhip Kuinji, Leonor Fini, Kay Sage, Magritte, Remedios Varo, John William Waterhouse.

What is the meaning of DreamLoka, the name of your website?

Loka is a Sanskrit word for world. I also like the fact that is sounds like the Spanish work Loca which means crazy. So DreamWorld or Crazy dream, they both work for me.
When I was looking for a name for my website I wanted to call it dream world but that was taken, so out of all the possible variations my husband came up with DreamLoka and I loved it.

If for whatever reason the art gods said you only had 10,000 images to make and after that there is no more. No matter how much you bargain and plead with them you only have the ability to make two more images and then you are finished. What are those last two images going to be?

A mystery, they will be what those same gods dream for me.

Living or dead, if you could be any other artist for one day who would it be?

Remedios Varo. I would just like to get inside her head for a little peak. Her dream worlds are similar to mine, but I love her tendency towards the surreal.

Do you feel that your pieces may somehow actually be self portraits?

Actually every artist have themselves and what they have experienced to reflect back and into the art they create, so in this way, yes, all of my art could be said to be a part or a portrait of myself. And it is often true that images made by an artist look like themselves, especially drawings and paintings, because it is their own face and body they see in the mirror everyday, and they know those features best. Many artists use a mirror image to learn about drawing the figure and portrait. But now I will be a true Gemini and say that I also am very empathetic, and I am a good observer of expression, body language, energy and mood. For this reason I feel I am able to see things in my models that many other people do not capture. Some times my photos have been called soul portraits. Often the people I photograph are struck by what I see and show them, a deeper part of themselves that they rarely share; or an unmasked emotion, or an opportunity to act out a part of their being that has not had expression. In this case I believe that I am just a safe receptor, for what opens and is released when I have creative time with a model.

Why do you create?

Because I can’t not do it, I feel driven to do it, I exist for it.

You can view more of Nina’s work at the following links/

http://www.dreamloka.com/home.html

http://www.ninapak.com